Ep 02: I Didn’t Know That About You?
In this episode, Co-Hosts Jamie Saunders, Von Glitschka, Karen Larson, and Justin Ahrens chat through why we do what we do, weave through the stories of our friendships, and share how we got to where we are in our lives and careers. Friends for over ten years, we learned something new about each other including how to pronounce our last names. We also found a recipe for our signature Shit Show cocktail that you do not want to miss. Enjoy the show!
SHOW NOTES:
Phil Cooke - https://cookemediagroup.com or https://www.linkedin.com/in/philcookepage/
Stefan Mumaw, Creative Director at First Person Inc.: https://www.firstperson.is and http://www.stefanmumaw.com/
Pics from Africa: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rule29/4650437019/in/album-72157624037542359/
‘A Bug’s Life’ Movie Info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bug's_Life
Wes Anderson: ‘Hotel Budapest’: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Budapest_Hotel and his latest is ‘The French Dispatch.’
Scott Hull, Art Rep: https://scotthull.com
1883: https://tinyurl.com/1883Series
J. Todd Anderson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Todd_Anderson
Cohen Brothers: https://collider.com/coen-brothers-best-movies/
Raising Arizona, Nic Cage: https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a36287882/why-raising-arizona-has-the-best-opening-scene-of-any-movie/
Big Lebowski Dude Sketch (Sketch is locked away) Use this image:
© Illustration by, Von Glitschka
Yellowstone Tornado Scene: https://youtu.be/oaqIe_n9rhI
Ruth from Ozark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Garner
LinkedIn Learning: https://www.linkedin.com/learning/
All of Von’s content on LinkedIn Learning: https://www.drawingvectorgraphics.com
Von’s bi-weekly creative series: https://www.dvglab.com
Creative Shit Show Signature Cocktail: “The Muddy Water” 1 ½- 2 ounces bourbon · ½ lime, freshly squeezed · Topachico, to top of the glass (Karen and Justin prefer Bushmills)
ROUGH TRANSCRIPT:
Jamie: Hey guys, how's everybody doing today? I'm Jamie Saunders. I'm here with my awesome co-hosts. I've got Justin Ahrens, Karen Larson, and Von Glitschka on the podcast with us as always. And we're excited to be here.
Justin: Can we start right away with the way you say Von's last name? Is it Gleeeska?
Von: Yeah, that's what I was wondering.
Justin: We’ve been friends for all these years and I think it's glitch SCA.
Karen: Yes. It's just the southern pronunciation
Jamie: So I'm off to a great start. I've known these guys for probably over a decade each and they don't know how to pronounce any of their names properly. It's going to be a good show.
Just we've been noodling around.
I've been talking to other people and am very curious about some of the work that I've been doing. I've noticed a lot of people questioning their career choices and, obviously, we're talking a lot about the great reset in our world as it sits. And I think, I personally, lately I've been wondering a lot about why
I'm doing what I'm doing. And then I'm starting to wonder why other people are doing what they're doing.
And thought it would be a great conversation for us to have today. Just sharing our thoughts on, what we're doing and why we're doing it. And maybe we can help some people try to figure that out.
Karen: What do you guys think?
Justin: I don't know. I just think Gleeeeska, could you kick us off?
Von: Why am I doing this? Cause I can't see myself doing anything else. That's why I'm doing it. But it's the definition of what I'm doing though. Seems to fundamentally change it. Three to five years. What I started off doing was trying to just have my own clients and do my own work.
And over the first five to seven years, the design business, it shifted to more or less being working with other places to help their clients. And I didn't mind that it's a little easier management-wise. I don't really get into that. I don't enjoy it. That is I guess what, why I'm doing what I'm doing is just because I like working with other people.
Karen: Makes sense
Jamie: What about you, Karen?
Karen: Like Von, I don't know what else I would be doing. I can think of lots of other things, that I would be doing, but I love to be a graphic designer. I love helping people grow their business. I love working with all the different people and
learning about all the different businesses. And I know I use this phrase all the time, but getting my head around what somebody. Is doing and helping them break down all that detail and everything. I love that. And I love especially like working with engineers. They're great at stuff like that.
And they appreciate it. So I working with people that really appreciate graphic design and the power behind it, it's really super satisfying, but. Being self-employed for so many years, I love that. I don't have to go into an office. I love that. I don't have a boss, all those things, yeah, it's, there's it's a great life.
Jamie: Jay dog?
Justin: Yeah, I've thought about it. I thought about that before. Karen, one of the questions I was going to ask you right off the bat is, what would you be doing if you couldn't do what you're doing now? And. when we talk to students, sometimes they ask you that question.
And mine is I wish I would have either been an actor or a director. And I was saying that to my kids the other day. And they're like, why don't you do that? And I might. I dunno, I, we get to do that a little bit. When I went to school, there was no internet, right? The thought of a designer or creative doing a video on something that people could see around the world in seconds.
That was, there was even a possibility, it felt like star Trek. So I do what I do cause I was one of those kids. I just had this creative perspective, I drew on the margins of my paper until I'd had a teacher that really should've taught me that these are words I have now.
I didn't, we didn't have these words back then I was a visual learner. And then I saw things and pictures and concepts and colors, and, everyone here does and we'll have different, we all have different areas of specialty. And so for me, I think that my best answer to that question is I would have to be doing something in the creative field and I'm interested in doing maybe something different or more adding to what we do now, just because, I'm almost 50 and some of the things that used to really get me excited I like doing, but they don't bring this.
I dunno for lack of a better term soul food or enrichment or satisfaction or whatever the right term is. So what I really love doing now is I love working with my teammates who are younger in the profession and helping them, see things differently and also learn. It's great. It's sometimes there are so many lessons to be learned in working with someone who doesn't know what they don't know, and it reminds you of a couple of things.
Wow. I actually know a few things and two, wow. I still have so much to learn. And I'm just one of those people that, that invigorates me versus freaks me out. Oh, good.
Jamie: I was going to say, I think that I had that same moment. It's a weird moment. Maybe you guys, maybe we can just divert for a minute, come right back to that.
But I feel like when I was managing the intern program at my old company, they put me in charge of the intern program and it, and all of a sudden I really realized. These college kids were dependent on me for information and for organization and for showing them, something. And all of a sudden I realized.
One, I'm not the kid anymore. So they're looking to me for a lot of information that I was just like, oh, I'm not sure. But then, like you said, I'll get asked the question and I'll just start talking about it and I'll be like, oh, I do know all of that. It's in there, somewhere, but that's a weird moment when you transitioned from being the mentee to the mentor it's a wild moment where you realize people are, looking to you for something.
Von: Yeah, what's interesting is Justin had no idea you had even thought about any of that kind of stuff. This goes back about five years ago, I was told, like Stefan, like I'm thinking of a complete shift and the shift was to try to get into art direction for the film industry. And there's one person inside Hollywood runs this company out of Burbank his name, he's a director, his name's Phil Cooke.
I follow him on Instagram and he let me call him and talk to him and pick his brain about doing that. And he gave me some good feedback in terms of he didn't think it was a good movie. And that's not really what I wanted to hear at the time, but it's what I needed to hear because he made some good points and I'm glad I didn't make them move, but you might want to check out his, he has a lot of good quotes.
He's a good thinker, but he also does a lot of films. I first met him years ago when they hired me to do a logotype for a production they were working on.
Justin: I love that, Von, we actually did talk about this. We were doing a film. Yeah. We did a film together in Africa. You were there.
Von: I remember doing that. We were talking about your thing, but we were just, I was just saying that really energized me and what I couldn't discern at the time was it was energized because I was in Africa is energized because we were doing work to benefit others. Or was it the film or was it all the above?
And to me now, I know it's all. But I remember. Stephan Luma, you and he and I were talking I think we're actually, we're at a Film Fest or whatever. And you were telling us about this great position of designers who designed products for shows like props for shows and stuff that, that this is the conversation, you, you had with. Yeah, and it was awesome. And I thought, wow.
And funny ever since you've told me that, by the way, just as a side note, when I watch you see it a lot in Marvel, especially the MCU, but when you watch these shows even period pieces and. Yeah, I'm watching 1883 right now. And I'm thinking, wow, those labels in that store, like some designer, put just passion and love and for something that may never be seen.
And I don't know, there's something wonderfully romantic about that. So I, you inspired me when he told me that. I think that you would be amazing at that just as this.
Von: Years ago, I stopped doing it years ago, but every year I would go to the Pixar site and see if they add any positions. Then I applied for it.
A friend of mine, who I used to work with years ago here in Oregon, he worked for ILM for eight years. And so he knew, I forget the director, something green is his last name. He did the bug's life anyway. He connected me with him and the guy emailed me and said, Hey, go to a Pixar, apply for this job.
And I was like, okay, that's really not an endorsement or whatever, but I didn't really take it seriously. Then, two days later I got an email from him. I've been waiting for your application to come through and I'm like, oh shit. And so I spent like the whole day filling out. It's like this long thing. And then it went through and basically a dear John letter-type reply back.
But yeah, it's, I've always, I always thought, and it was a perfect job. It was for a production designer. That doesn't mean the same in film, that's Like Justin said, it's like helping sell the narrative of whatever the shot is they're doing in this case, the store he referred to. But there are a couple people.
I met a guy a few years back who does production design for film. And he was really fun to talk to. It, it is interesting and I'm always picking up on it in production. Especially if it's a cockpit. It irritates me when they found it. And it just like I've done captures of the screen and it just says coffee, like really get a little creative,
Jamie: great job
Karen: but you need to just do so many other pet projects, you should start creating graphics that will apply to all of that.
There's all the graphics that are done for a while. I'm like Hotel Budapest, and I'm not going to remember the name of the roster. And then the new, I don't know if you guys have seen, but the newest Wes Anderson. Oh my God. It is gorgeous. It is an art director, a designer's a dream., I think that if you show people what you can do.
Justin: Then they'll come. That's the additive on here it is. Here's your next social campaign. So snag those screenshots and then Photoshop and your idea that would, people would love that. That would be great. And then go ahead and send. The residual check to Jamie, Karen, and I for giving you that great idea.
Von: Justin, you're the one that I first met through Scott Hull, my art rep, and Scott is friends with J. Todd Anderson, who was the storyboard artist for the Cohen Brothers or his storyboard artists for pretty much all their productions going back to Raising Arizona.
Justin: And by the way, which I still think is one of the best films ever, keep going.
Von: So when I was in Ohio, visiting Scott he coordinated a dinner where J. Todd showed up and he agreed to bring his storyboard book for The Big Lebowski. So I got to go through that and I traded him a poster for a page out of that book.
Karen: So one of the original like The Dude sketches,
Justin: put that on screen, flex on us right now.
Karen: We’re going to have to put that on The Creative Shit Show website. That would be great. Justin, I have a question for you. If you were, what type of actor and what, and or director, what type of work would you want to do?
Justin: That’s a great question. They're different. My daughter is, I have four kids as you guys know, but for those listeners, I know I have four kids and my youngest is a sophomore in high school, and she just started watching Yellowstone because my wife and I are really into it. And the cinematography on that show.
And even Wes Anderson films. Like it's just gorgeous, right?
Karen: Tornado scene.
Justin: Oh yeah. Yeah. It's visionary. It's so great. And. What's interesting to me is just the, right now that we just talked about it, that surge of adrenaline that I got, and just the excitement around that, I feel that's something that I want to.
Leaning more to we do some videos and stuff for Rule29. And, I enjoy that, the corporate videos, it's not like we're and I know we're telling narratives and we try to make them as cinematic as possible. We should. It's different. I want to experience that differences because I've only ever done documentaries and those are fun.
But so something that was either in nature And beautiful or something that you created in a world, like an environment, like a Wes Anderson type situation. I know those are really special and very specific. And then I don't know. I like all forms of film, but I really enjoy shows that are funny but also have, like dramadies right.
That, there's a story behind them. They're also funny. I don't know. That'd be fun to, to be a part of that in some way, but I just wonder, do they want a quick Jamie? Did we didn't get what year we didn't get to her, but yeah, we'd love to,
Jamie: so for me it kinda goes back just a little bit because I was actually, you were saying you were talking to your kids about, your career or what you wanted to do.
And my son's 16 now, and he's getting more interested in learning more about my past life. What I did before he came around and I, and he said he was looking at colleges. So he said, what did you study in college? And I'd said I actually went into college thinking I was going to be a.
And he laughed like the loudest laugh ever. And it affirmed that I made the right choice, not becoming a teacher. Cause I, I said why are you laughing? He said you are not patient. There's just no way, and so I do love mentoring people that's not teaching, so I said, okay, I'm gonna switch my major. Once I realized I didn't want to be a teacher. And I ended up in marketing communications because my advisor told me you get to talk for a living. So I actually was like, this is made for me. Notes home from school since I was like five, since kindergarten talks too much to the point where my mom was like, I'm not coming in for a parent-teacher conference because she talks too much.
She's five, she said get over it, it still goes on today, and especially just, anyway, so learning that I can make it a living. Talking was like, the icing on the cake for me. And then I took, a reroute through retail, which I loved working as a a store manager and traveling in district manager for Bath and Body Works for years and years.
And then I started at Neenah Paper company. And just wanted to make a big change once I had my son, and they stuck me in a marcomm role that they didn't have. They created the position and it was just love at first sight. I loved it. I loved everything about it. And so that's my roundabout story.
Karen: All of us because of that, you met everyone here.
Justin: I was today years old. When I found out about your job before.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I was a retail manager for a long time. I loved it. I sold bubble bath. How bad can that be? People come in having a bad day looking for some like bubble bath and you're like, I can help you with that. And I was so good at it.
Justin: I’m going to share with you guys a fun fact. Do you know that Vaughn loves bubble baths Von, how often do you take a bubble?
Jamie: Are you kidding? You're being serious?
Von: Yeah. It's like I'd much rather take a shower.
Jamie: You know what it is? It's just, we call it in my house. Affectionately fart water. Cause you are literally sitting in filth.
Justin: Come on Vonnie, you like a good bath bomb.
Von: I would love to replace our bathtub we have with a jacuzzi tub, then I'd be okay with it.
Jamie: Then you're just stirring up.
Justin: There it is. That's true.
Karen: Oh, my God
Justin: don’t blame me. Jamie brought it up.
Karen: Yeah.
Jamie: No, bubble bath is good. There's a market for everything. Once I realized you could hone a pitch, like seriously, I got really good at it. And you're just like trying to help them out. And next thing you're talking about your life and then they buy like a hundred dollars worth of bubble bath and lotion and they leave and they're happy.
And then they come back and they want to see you. And I don't know, it's when I realized have you hone your pitch and you get that down? I didn't even know I was doing marketing. Do you know what I mean? At that time, I didn't even think about it. But I think back to that time, a lot. You know the difference between what we did, what I was doing there, and what I'm doing now is, that people were coming into the store.
So they were like a captive audience, right? So they come into the store, they're looking for something, they need something, they want something and then I get it to them. But now it's you got to go out and seek those people. So it's harder, but I think that my background, it helps me try to refine think through what I'm doing.
Karen: So as far as your why aside from the fact that you could talk, you took this job without knowing probably really what the industry was, how long did it take you to learn that you loved the industry, or did it take you awhile?
Jamie: It was probably about six months in, Neenah is a special place. Honestly, it still holds a special place in my heart.
I still keep up with the people there. I love the culture there. I still talk to people there, but I was talking about. And so I talked to them, constantly, I love working with them.
Von: I didn't realize, that when your mom passed was when you made that transition to working for yourself.
Jamie: And I think it's just like those big life moments put everything in perspective for you. So I was there for a dozen years. I love my job. And then one day I didn't love it anymore and it wasn't them. It was me. It was totally me, and I think. I love marketing. I love doing this, but I don't want to do it like this.
And I'm not, I'm doing a disservice to the coworkers that I have, and the company that I love because I was, I just couldn't focus. I couldn't concentrate and I couldn't give my best, so I don't want to do anything. I, if I don't want to sign my name to it and I'm not going to do it like I need to be able to feel comfortable.
So I made that switch.
Karen: Always personally, there's always those big life moments that make you want to make decisions. And it was obvious that your mom's illness and then ultimately her death really triggered that.
Jamie: She was going to go, and she was going to leave, I felt like it needed to be bigger, I needed to go and do something bigger.
So I told Von, I went into Alzheimer's advocacy in her honor, and then it just became, they needed my help. I started doing marketing with them and then I thought I can actually maybe do this for myself. And I started working with SCAD and other people and it just became something.
I don't know it's been a journey. I just allowed myself now to be freer, to follow things than I ever had in my, I used to plan everything, and think things through. And now it's just one day at a time, I just want to do what I'm doing, but I love what I'm doing now.
I love it. I still get to do all the things I get to do before, but now I get to sit over here and look into Neenah from the outside and it's perfect. It works for everybody right now. And they've got somebody there that they can work with day in and day out. And then they've got me when they need me.
Karen: So Justin, you had asked me what else I would do if I wasn't doing what I was doing,
Justin: I want to know. So when I was a kid, I always said I'm either going to be a commercial artist because they didn't have graphic designers. That wasn't a fun term back then really? Or I was going to be a stewardess. Because I wanted to travel and I got airsick, so that was not going to work.
But my grandmother on my dad's side, she knew a commercial artist and she would send me the stats all the time. And stats like photostats.
I don't mean like statistics. And she would send me the stats at these illustrators. And I'm like, this is cool. So that's where it was like, I just didn't, it was a given, I guess, but as I've gotten older, I have done some teaching, and I like that. I like teaching adults, and I plan on doing more of that probably through online stuff, but I've also nursing is it's not ever going to happen, but I think I would have been a good nurse.
I have played nurse, so I know.
Jamie: And there are two new things. I just, I heard flight attendant and I just, my mind is blown and I have, I've played caregiver.
Karen: I’ve played the role of a caregiver to multiple people in my life over multiple years. And it's just a natural, if anything, it might not be a nurse, but, maybe an advocate, healthcare ads.
Jamie: And you're strong. That's what they need is somebody there to be strong, like you are, we've discussed that I'm really good at it and get it.
Karen: And I actually, there's no weirdness about walking into a hospital for me. I’m very comfortable. And I could see myself doing that someday. But I don't know. We'll see. I, right now I have enough of that within the family. So I have a full-time job within the family for that.
Justin: I think what's interesting about this conversation is that, we all get to see each other. Haven't been able to see each other, our conferences, primary, the how conference.
And I'd be willing to bet that almost every time we're around the table, breaking bread or having a drink, whatever else someone is talking about doing something else. Because I think one of the things that I was excited about the show is just to talk about some realities, that we all have.
And I think. In our business, at least speaking, from my perspective, we put so much of us into the work. And I don't know if you guys relate to this at all. And although we're older and don't take it as personal as we did when we were probably. It still takes a toll. At least it feels like that way to me.
And, depending on if you're on a good season of, with the great client space or not unfortunately at least right now that feels to really add to her. Is that my energy? Does this land with any of you guys at all?
Karen: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Especially the fact that you said if you're on a high.
The highs are amazing, but if you're on a low with a client, which I have been and you can feel it going, it's a slow low usually, and you're not sure when, and if it's going to end and you have to usually make a decision as to how it's going to end, but it's never. I can say for all four of us, put our heart and soul into our work and delivering for clients.
And when it's not going right, it's shit. I don't know how else you can feel it. It's a mind game. We play mind games with ourselves. We, we start playing the, am I not worthy? Do we hit syndrome? It's everything. Even, even though we've been doing this forever, we all experienced that.
Right now, I feel like I'm on a high on things. So I get more optimistic
Justin: You just have a curiosity.
Karen: I really cannot believe that I've been doing this for 40 years and I don't want to stop now, granted the fact that I'm doing different stuff. We have to challenge ourselves daily, weekly, yearly, and like last year, as you all know, I did Procreate, for LinkedIn, which was huge for me. Didn't, it was a huge challenge and I did it, and now it's going great.
And I want to do more of that. So it's just reinventing constantly. We have a chance as self-employed people to reinvent, nobody is telling us what we can and can't do.
Von: The reinvention part, I think a big thing. I have been creating content for start off with Lynda and now LinkedIn since 2011. And so I have a booth and I was just thinking at the end of last year, beginning of this year, I have a pretty good resource. I can access same time. I want, maybe I should use it for other things and just develop content for LinkedIn.
So I've set up an account with Amazon audio and I'm Looking at people who need dictation and stuff done and figuring I have a recording set up, I might as well try that. And then just so I've actually submitted a few things so far. You download their script and then you have to read it and then.
They make a decision if you're somebody they'll consider for that.
Jamie: Karen and I literally just did this for a client. It was through like Audio Jungle. I think it was. That's so crazy hearing some of the different ways that we need over one lady. She sounded like a complete, like AI, it sounded like a robot.
It was a real person, but there was like no way.
Justin: Von, do you have a, do you have radio of voice? This is my radio podcast, Justin's voice.
Von: no, it depends. Like the thing, I read for was like, came from a fantasy novel of sorts. And it had a fake language. So I had to speak it.
Jamie: You need to do it here. I'll do it. I'll pay you money. Just a little snippet.
Von: I don't even remember how I pulled it off. I just said it.
Jamie: just send over the recording.
Von: I can do that one cartoon character,
Jamie: You would be the best cartoon character to me. Like you could read for animation. And it would be amazing.
Von: Or star wars.
Jamie: I bet you do. Let's hear.
Von: I’m not going to do any more than that.
Justin: The internet, or by the way, I need to get that clip because that's going to be my ringtone. When you call me now, just over and over again,
Von (in cartoon voice): Excuse me.
Jamie: I love it so much. It's exactly what I thought. This to me guys, this was such a good conversation because.
I know every time I get together, I learned something new about you. And that's like the true value of friendship to me is just, that you can always keep going back to the table, like you said, and finding out new things about each other, it's not boring. It's never boring with you guys. And I love that and appreciate you sharing your thoughts on careers and where we think we can go with it.
I think there's still so much more conversation to be had, but we get we're running out of time.
Justin: I love it. And I just say for me, I will walk away today feeling not alone in the fact that sometimes we feel great about our job, but sometimes like we don't and we start dreaming about the things that we wish we could do.
So Karen and I are going to go to flight attendant school and we'll go from there.
Jamie: Good takeaway. Von do you have a takeaway?
Von: I learned something new about each of you that I didn't know before today, so that's pretty cool.
Jamie: Yeah. Perfect.
Justin: Thanks, guys.