Ep 09: Special Guest: Bill Gardner

Episodes
Written By Karen Larson

It’s a Magical Creative Shit Show with the incomparable Bill Gardner of Gardner Design and LogoLounge.com. Bill took co-hosts Jamie Saunders, Von Glitschka, Karen Larson, and Justin Ahrens on a captivating journey through design history offering up insanely good advice on refining your designs, a beautiful analogy of how fishing and design are similar, dealing with clients who think they’re designers, and hidden features on logolounge.com. Grab a cocktail, have a laugh, and learn from a design master.

Show Notes

Enneagram: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com

Enya: https://youtu.be/7wfYIMyS_dI

Bill Gardner/Gardner Design: https://gardnerdesign.com

International Brotherhood of Magicians: www.magician.org

Harry Potter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter

HOW Design Live: www.howdesignlive.com

Imposter Syndrome: https://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2013/11/fraud

Michael Penda: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-penda-64399257/

Chad Michael: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chadmakersonmichael/

Wormwood: https://worldbranddesign.com/chad-michael-studio-mrswormwood/

Paul Rand: https://www.paulrand.design

(Photos Below)

  • Paul Rand’s Home and Desk in Connecticut (note the t-square on the title white table)

  • Bill Gardner with Paul Rand’s T-Square, oil painting is Paul Rand’s “Crossing of the Delaware”

  • From Paul Rand’s Desk, tools now owned by Bill Gardner, the sheets in the middle are Rand’s notes and drawings for a logo he was developing

Very Rough Transcript:

Jamie Saunders

We are excited to bring in the wonderful Bill Gardner of gardner design case you're not familiar with Bill. He's produced, effective and award-winning results for clients ranging from fortune 500 companies to one-man shops he's the founder of logo lounge dot com the international searchable compendium of logos I love that ah Bill also authored the affiliated. best selling logo lounge book series. He's the author of the annual logo lounge trend report which we're going to talk about a little bit today. He's an AIGA fellow for his contributions to the local national and international creative community and he has a hundred other things on his wonderful resume. Ah but what I want to focus on is that he has completed a 6 year term as the territorial vice president of the international. Brotherhood of magicians congratulations Bill Gardner welcome to the shit show. You can talk now please talk now. It's why we invited you.

Vonster

Nice.

Bill Gardner

Hey we're here does that mean I can can I talk now. Ah.

Justin Ahrens

You can, but before before you start talking I have to understand how did did you just retire from that. Did they vote you out or is all your magic on like how did that work.

Vonster

It was a wizard coup.

Bill Gardner

Ah, yeah, well and and and he's not far off the the the name ah is actually the wizards of Wichita and that came about long before wizards kind of adopted an entirely different moniker. So yeah, no, they.

Bill Gardner

They they pick somebody to kind of ride over all the magicians and they thought that I was so full of it that I could probably do that. So I finally gave it up. Yeah, go figure.

Jamie Saunders

Oh. Um, it's amazing I pictured some sort of duel. Did you guys a little magical duel or with their hands. They're like shooting sparks and like like it's the whole thing.

Karen Larson

Yeah, kind of with ah with your wands.

Bill Gardner

Okay, okay, so we're we're we're we're gonna we're going to get this off track before we even get it on track which is that magicians So Magicians have.

Karen Larson

Right.


Vonster

Ah, an opera guide.

Jamie Saunders

That's how we do things you're familiar with shit show

Karen Larson 

Ah, welcome to the shit show.

Bill Gardner

Absolutely and I'm going to get so much crap about this but I'm talking to designers not magicians here. They have absolutely some of the worst psyches and issues and but of of all the people in the world and I sold magic to people forever. Think about what a Magician does a Magician is kind of meaner and inner boo I know something you don't know okay who wants to do that. Think about that individual that individual that needs to detract such attention to themselves that you could generally and in you and work.

Karen Larson

That sounds like a number 8 and enneagram.

Jamie Saunders

Super confident is what I'm hearing super confident. You need to be a magician.

Bill Gardner

About the enneagrams but you know and yeah, it's It's mostly a bunch of people that um, as as good as they are. They need the attention and they're they're on their way to a divorce.

Justin Ahrens

Hey Bill ignore Karen keep telling your story about magic I am I am locked in.

Bill Gardner

They're on their way to separation. They're on their way to medication and it's and and that's minus the 10 people that are in the magic fraternity. 

klarson

Um, ah, cool.

Jamie Saunders

Well, that was an amazing start. It's a magical shit show I Love it. Why didn't I think of that.

Bill Gardner

There we go. So so I decided to get into design where everybody is in order and they've all nobody has an ego. 

Vonster

Um, respect.

Karen Larson

So let's talk about that.

Jamie Saunders

Um, well that's a great lead in to kind of where we actually wanted to go with this and I I think that we and the design world could benefit greatly from hearing about how you actually got started in the design industry I don't think that.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, yeah, this is where Justin steps out because he's already heard all this and bon has it I think we've already had all this already. So I was originally supposed to go into the family business which was real estate appraisal. Okay.

Jamie Saunders

I don't know your story I'm not sure how the group feels but um I'd love to hear how you got started with design. 

Bill Gardner

Can you see me telling people what their houses are worth no neither and I actually studied for that end marketing and I've got to I've got a degree in business and that's where it started and I had to tell my dad dad I can't I I've got more talent than that in other areas. But I I can't add numbers up and I can't you know. I'm goingnna I'm going to go off and I'm going to go draw pictures and I I left. Um I wasn't tied down I had a roommate I'd been doing magic. My roommate was a magician he was up at Kansas State University and that school and he said hey I've got ah I've got an extra room. You want it you you want to kind of the caseate so it was going up there to do magic and maybe I'll look at maybe I'll do a little bit of design while I'm up there and I enjoy design and pretty soon I found out but they didn't have much of a design program came back to Wichita State after having met my wife up there.

Jamie Saunders

Aw.

Bill Gardner

Future wife and completed degree in design nobody would hire me so I started my own business and that was it 

Vonster

Did you ever saw your girlfriend in half?

Jamie Saunders

Um, metaphorically not physically don't.

Karen Larson

Um, that's a random um question.

Vonster

Like reflect.

Bill Gardner

Okay, let me let me put it this way I left more girls just kind of raggedly cut partway through but I never really made it in half. Yeah nobody was murdered in the process of learning magic. No.

Vonster

Okay.

Jamie Saunders

And no one was murdered in the creation of the shit show.

Karen Larson

So.

Jamie Saunders

Ah, that's awesome I I don't know I cannot imagine you selling real estate that would be so weird. What a waste of your talent.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, you know it it. It really was a great profession for the family and they they all did very well with it. But yeah and I you know and to to see something that was kind of I was thinking about this the other day.

Karen Larson

Yeah.

Bill Gardner

My dad who had been mayor of Wichita and was you know, very well- known and very well connected came to me when I told him I wanted to be a designer and he goes built I don't know anybody in design I'm not sure I can help you I'm going dead. It's okay I think I'll figure it out and you know he. He was one of the most honest, wonderful individuals that always wanted to help people but he felt so badly about the fact that he didn't know any other designers that he could really introduce me to or that he could help in some way. So yeah, yeah.


Jamie Saunders

Um, that's so sweet 

Karen Larson

That's so sweet.

Jamie Saunders

Jinx. Buy me a drink.

Justin Ahrens

Oh my God So really quick just one side question. So you said magicians were insecure and and they were creative so that they're like designers.

Bill Gardner

Okay, jinx.

Bill Gardner

Um, yeah, yeah there there are a lot of there is a lot of similarities in there. You know I mean we so we were all at how design life here a couple of months ago a month thick or so ago and it seems like god everybody was talking about imposter syndrome.

Bill Gardner

And I mean that that just you know again again I if I had to hear it one more time but it really rings true with Magicians and designers I think ah is that they've got these insecurities.

Karen Larson

But why why built because I need to ask. Why do you think that we hear about it all the time now but we didn't hear it all the time twenty years ago in the business I mean it just.

Jamie Saunders

I've been wondering that same thing.

Bill Gardner

Um, yeah, um, okay you you you want an honest answer which is that I believe so much of what consumes us now is relatively delivered to us on our mobile devices.

Karen Larson

It wasn't a thing then.

Bill Gardner

And because it is so quick and so easy for people I was just having this conversation with Michael Pindo who's one of our great designers Michael is deathly allergic to peanuts and we are going Michael you know hey you know thirty years ago nobody knew about peanut allergies.

Jamie Saunders

Until now.

Bill Gardner

Thirty years ago nobody knew that if you ate a piece of bread that it would you know make you feel bad thirty years ago we used to ride our bikes behind these bravey trucks that would be spraying from mosquitoes sucking down dt you know, but we all still live. You know and I you know, but.

Karen Larson

There you go. We used to hitch onto the back of cars and let them drag us in the snow time ever. Ah.

Bill Gardner

Exactly and we loved it man going up yo both ways but you know it was one of those things where if if I think you look at so many things today and we've we've become so damned introspective of ourself. You know it's it's.

Jamie Saunders

Um, the good old things.

Bill Gardner

You know why? Why am I this way. Why can't I figure out what my thing is in life. Why is it that I can't you know and we we're looking for something to attach it to honest to God and it's not what I disbelieve that people that have ah issues have issues I'm policy I know I've got issues I mean you know I've got issues.

Karen Larson

Um I agree.

Bill Gardner

But it's one of those things where you know I don't dwell on it and it's kind of like I feel really badly that I'm not empathetic about everything that everybody's got going on. Wow did I Just lose an entire audience.

Justin Ahrens

That's for sure.

Karen Larson

Right. Yeah, hear hear.

Jamie Saunders

Um, the world is um, no, you're good I think they're used to it by now. But oh I think that's amazing answer.

Karen Larson

But again, it's like it wasn't a thing thirty years ago and I think that I'm with I'm ah I'm in a little bit with Bill where I feel like everyone's diagnosed with something nowadays and.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:11.83

klarson

Because of and yeah I believe yeah, every but you know so many people have ADD no question. But I think it's blown up and emphasized because of you know the it's almost like a bandwagon you jump on it.

Karen Larson

A DD whatever do some of these differences that people have that's what makes von so creative. That's what makes you know that's what makes people unique and how Justin you but you all have a d d.

Bill Gardner

So yeah. You know I've had I've had conversations with all of you independently we all have issues I know that perfect you know we we all had things that we dealt with growing up with we we all had issues every one of us. But man.

Karen Larson

Isn't that the truth. Yes.

Jamie Saunders

Yeah, yeah I think so.

Bill Gardner

I Think we all succeeded in some way didn't we

Karen Larson

Yep, whatever it all strengthens us I'm a firm believer in that.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, and by the way for those that don't know everybody on this podcast is drinking and they're drinking heavily. So now if you want to know how they got through it.

Jamie Saunders

Ah god we did not endorse.

Karen Larson

Ah, clanks glass.

Justin Ahrens

We do we We do not endorse excessive drinking but we do endorse drinking.

Jamie Saunders

Yes, yes.

Bill Gardner

Are yeah you you know if you can only see everybody is swigging ah bonds bond bun bohead liquid running down his neck through his beard and down. Yeah down his wife Peter.

Jamie Saunders

Um, he's just drinking tea. Yeah, what? yeah, he's got some peachy tea or something.

Karen Larson

He's drinking some fruity Starbucks drink.

Vonster

No ice cappuccino.

Karen Larson

Oh there we go see I was close.

Bill Gardner

Um, there you go I could reach up here and pull down a bottle of Chad Michaels wormwood I could crack it open and I get bun send me ah, send me a good label on it's got a whole show full of good labels up here.

Karen Larson

Ooh.

Karen Larson

Nice So tell us about so tell us about gardner design. Um, honestly I think so much of the audience knows you from logo lounge which we'll talk about that but we don't realize that you have this amazing firm.

Bill Gardner

Ah, yeah. Um, yeah, yeah.

Karen Larson

Um, so you know tell us a little bit about your firm. How many people you have what type of clients you have doesn't you know.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, So um, gardener design literally came out of the fact that nobody would hire me and we already covered the fact that I was doing magic when I got out of school and I would go into interview and people would say yeah your portfolio is great but show me a trick. Because they knew that I did magic and I realized I had to put the magic away and focus entirely on the the design and my dad had an extra office in his real estate office and I literally put a shingle out and opened the door and said great I'm gonna I'm gonna have my own design firm I'm gonna you? what.

Karen Larson

Perfect.

Jamie Saunders

I Love that I Love that.

Bill Gardner

Yeah I mean that was made and it was and it was a freelance kind of deal where I was kind of going until I find a job and probably about a year into it I had enough work that I had to hire somebody to help me with the work I was doing and I was still going out on interviews and guy's name was Steve Wheeler he says Bill. You know you know? yeah. I'm mean employers you're you're out looking for a job and I've got a wife and a child and we're dependent on on a so if you get a job I don't have a job so I at that point started to realize as I'm hiring people I'm going. Okay, we've actually got a firm. This is you know this is a real thing. And I've been very fortunate that you know when when I first got into this nobody really knew what logo design was nobody really knew I mean yeah so this was 1983. That's when the door opens and um I'd been out. Yeah yeah.

Jamie Saunders

Um I believe it when I was 10

Justin Ahrens

I was 11

Bill Gardner

When I mean you hell you weren't even a glimmer yet you you know that I I can remember my my my group.


Karen Larson

Oh just shut up. You guys.

Jamie Saunders

With my adhd riding my bike around in the summer burning off. Okay, good.

Justin Ahrens

Um, yeah Karen was Karen wasn't born yet Karen wasn't born yet.

Karen Larson

Ah, because I was in my last year of college though I was right with you bill.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, show show of hands. No, actually who who is more than None you guys were all see no hands came up. No hands came up nobody nobody ah you got.

Karen Larson

Oh who acts like they were more than ten in 1983

Jamie Saunders

I don't act my age now and I'm more than 10. Go on, sorry.

Karen Larson

Ah, no, but no, but 1983 that was a tough time that was a tough time because the economy was yeah yeah, yep.

Bill Gardner

Ah. Um, so Garden design. It was yeah no, the economy was for shit then and I mean you you had to work like hell to find somebody that was willing to pay you money for drawing a picture for him. And I mean and that's how they perceived you know and that was probably how I perceived it at the time was it was no more than just drawing a picture.

Vonster

Where were you doing were you doing everything like traditionally I mean because I know at that time the only Mac out was Apple to yeah okay, well good.

Bill Gardner

Oh yes, no there. There were no Mac then, come on, Von.

Karen Larson

There's key line key line list that doesn't count.

Jamie Saunders

I had a paper and pencil.

Vonster

Um, not Macs but there was Apple too like I didn't need this. No I know.

Bill Gardner

That.

Jamie Saunders

He had a rock the chisel like that's what we're talking about that hold you chisel Bill's showing us his antiquated design tools.

Karen Larson

Yeah, oh nice T Square I Love it.

Vonster

Um, and there you go. Nice.

Bill Gardner

And I'll tell you something.

Vonster

T square.

Bill Gardner

In anybody want to know where that T square came from this this is this is Paul Rand's T square and this is hi a poll. Yep.

Justin Ahrens

I Love that you said it that way it sounded so inappropriate.

Karen Larson

It's T square. Um, where did you, oH NO way. Wow.

Vonster

No.

Justin Ahrens

You're lying. You have Paul Ryan's T Square?

Vonster

But what was he on Paul Rand and who ah those.

Jamie Saunders

That's amazing.

Bill Gardner

Is Pi apo and his T square and I've also I've also got a bunch of.

Justin Ahrens

All right? Okay, stop stop stop. how did you get Paul Rand's how did you get Paul Rands stuff

Jamie Saunders

Um, it's all his. Yeah yeah, what's the story.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, um, so about three years ago paul ranza state went up for auction and um and it was an amazing auction. It was online and um I don't know maybe None different lots. Of things and I ended up buying a number of things some paintings that he had done I've got a whole set of his french curves that he used to to draw stow you know and all all of I bought basically all of his different you know, drawing tools and.

Vonster

Ah, fast more.

Jamie Saunders

Really.

Justin Ahrens

Um, so cool.

Jamie Saunders

That's incredible.

Bill Gardner

It's kind of like I I look at that and I'm going. Okay the UPS the Westinghouse logo he you know he ran his you know and this is so when Von is asking about tools I wasn't using that kind of T square that.

klarson

That is so amazing.

Bill Gardner

You know I mean it was one of those deals where yeah I mean I had a drafting board with a parallel bar on it. You know lots lots and lots of templates and you know circles and ellipses and stuff and that was how I was drawn them. How are you drawing them.

Vonster

Yeah. Yep, cool I didn't oh no no no no I learned everything traditionally and it wasn't until a couple years after I graduated that I even touched a computer. Yeah i.

Karen Larson

That was the best.

Bill Gardner

Did you did you start before the computer. Yeah, yeah.

Bill Gardner

Um, yeah, yeah.

Vonster

I'm kind of glad it worked that way because it developed analog skills that most people kind of ignore now.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, you you and I know how to use it in exact drive pretty well and probably everybody in here has cut off that portion of their index finger at one point with a number 11 blade. Um.

Vonster

I Um I I was and I was in we were in. We had a mechanical class in art school.

Karen Larson

Absolutely Yes, yep.

Justin Ahrens

Um, you know you know it's.

Jamie Saunders

This is why I use a pencil only pencil I don't lose sharp objects.

Vonster

And all the overlays and I'm trimming the edge of the overlays with the straight edge and Xacto and somebody said something I looked up as I'm pulling it down the the straight edge slice right in my hand ruined everything. Yeah that those were the days.

Jamie Saunders

Oh no, no oh.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, we but but but it's.

Justin Ahrens

Well hey this then I I so I so I swear to a guy that you last night my I was telling my kids about like how we started in the business I'll never forget my very first job I finally got asked to prepare the ads and if you remember we would put ads on.

Bill Gardner

Sure and you wax the type so it would stick.

Karen Larson 

I Rubber cemented.

Justin Ahrens

You know, boarded and flap them so you could carry them to the office and I remember this is yeah yeah, and this was like this was like the this was our biggest client at the time I Never forget I was cut in the board and you know you always got to change the blade but I was like just the last cut of the last board.

Jamie Saunders

Oh cool.

Justin Ahrens

And I sliced off the corner of my thumb and ah it got everywhere and my boss ran in looked at the boards and he's like you ruined the boards.

Bill Gardner

So.

Jamie Saunders

Um.

Karen Larson 

That's right, It's like as long as send us no blood on the boards were good.

Bill Gardner

Um, yeah.

Justin Ahrens

So like I remember I I picked up that little piece and put my hand in the bag ice went to the ER and I'm like he only cared about the boards.

Jamie Saunders

Um God let's go.

Vonster

Um.

Jamie Saunders

Um, but to this point bill I'm a bill and Vaughn. No, that's okay I i't mean to interrupt your your beautiful bloody story. Ah.

Bill Gardner

You know what? seriously everybody here has as at one point or another cut their finger up. Yeah, were you saying Jamie.

Karen Larson 

I can. Ah.

Bill Gardner

Ah.

Vonster

Okay I have the next question for you bill and that is gardner design has a distinct aesthetic, especially your firm's logo marks and I was just curious.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Saunders

Oh.

Vonster

How was that established and maintained with newer designers as you onboarded them.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, do you do you really think that it has a style and that's yeah, okay, it's interesting me hear you say that because um I one of my designers Brian Miller um a number of years ago made the comment that I think it is more.

Vonster

Oh yeah.

klarson

Yes.

Jamie Saunders

Yeah, definitely.

Bill Gardner

That our style is quality then it is a style and it you know? Ah so it's that it has reached that certain level and and one of the things you may or may not know is that when and and guys we have ah some tremendous. Logo and identity designers that work here and have worked here over the years that have gone off and started their own studios and and so on and so forth and I have made very little money designing logos in my life because we always spend more time working on an identity. Then we will ever be able to build and part of that is that we will present a logo with maybe None or 10 logos oftentimes the worst of which is 10 times better than the best that most people would offer up and when you.

Bill Gardner

You know and you just force yourself to keep going George Bakwa the designer made made a comment to me a number of years ago that I that I really loved and it was that so many designers design like they fish and not not knowing how many of them fish but it's that you set your hook. For a certain depth. You know that your fishing is six foot down and he says when you're fishing six foot down everybody is going to catch the same fish but when you end up setting the hook deeper and you dive deeper down in the water. It's going to get murky and dark and you're not going to see much. Until you get to the bottom and when you get to the bottom you're going to see some of the most amazing creatures that swim by that glow in the dark that have things that you've never thought about and he said those are the logos. Those are the ones that you want to bring up and share with the client and.

Karen Larson 

No pun intended but that's where the magic happens.

Jamie Saunders

Um, that's awesome. Um.

Vonster

So deep fix your designs I like that.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, yeah, and yes, you know it's guys you know take all the None stuff that you've drawn and throw it away because everybody else has drawn that too.

Vonster

Low head.

Karen Larson 

So how many how many designs do you do? Um, when you're designing a logo and a brand what how many designs does your team go through to pick those 10


Jamie Saunders

Um, oh I Love that.

Bill Gardner

Um, you know it's oh god um I think I think maybe Vaughn has seen some of our exploratory pages before that we've done. We've so I've got ah I've got a kind of a set rule. Um, whatever, whatever the platform is. You're designing in that you you work on a design and is you think? Okay I wonder what would happen if I did so and so you dupe it off and then you make that modification and then you dupe that off and you make that modification and you think of this other idea and you leave that and come down on the other page. And you build all that stuff on that page and we are undoubtedly going to cast off a lot of stuff that might be really good ideas. So it's important that the other designers in the shop look at that page and go wow I really like this did you you you skipped by that.

klarson

Who.

Bill Gardner

And we do that naturally because I think when we design you know we're on a track and you know we're we're trying to get to that next thing and sometimes we don't take time to look out the window of the train and see the beauty of what's going on. You know the things that you're kind of creating along the way and. Ah, by by doing that you can see the trail of where you went. We all know that there's that thing about yeah, you take something and you you start to reduce it to the point where you don't recognize it anymore and then you take a step back you know and and that can be kind of a rule. But I think that by creating that track in there that. It really gives you a chance to kind of go back and see where something has hit its magic point and it's not uncommon for us to Karen you were asking how many you know ah a page a designer does may have a None decent directions.

Bill Gardner

But it may have 50 that are worth really looking at and it may have 20 that you would show somebody and it may have 10 or 7 that really are the cream and that's the stuff that you pull out and and and you show and.

Karen Larson 

Right. Nice.

Bill Gardner

So if you ask me why there is that style. It's the style is quality and it is that you know we just refine stuff. The other thing is that everything that we create has to have at least 3 levels that it lives on it has to.


Bill Gardner

You You can look at it literally and go. That's a shoe and then you have to look at it again and go okay, that's Italy Oh the texture on that is the leather that they're known for. And the strap on that as it comes across helps form the initial of the company and it's it's all of these things where if a person that looks at it just sees the literal aspect of that logo and that's all that there is they are going to walk away from it.

Karen Larson 

This is.

Bill Gardner

And that's all that they will ever remember. But if they have an aha moment. It's like when you're listening to that song that you've heard a None times before and you hear a lyric but you're going god I never heard that lyric that way and you go god I own that now and it makes a person own a brand.

Jamie Saunders

Um, and yeah.

Karen Larson 

Right? That's wonderful.

Jamie Saunders

I Love that.

Vonster

That is That's awesome.

Bill Gardner

Okay, get off the soapbox now.

Jamie Saunders

Um, oh it's stay on the soapbox. That's why you're here.

Justin Ahrens

Not It's great Bill I Just you just I just wept a little bit that was so beautiful. Thank you.

Bill Gardner

I okay now I can actually see Justin right now and what's happening is he's wearing a pair of pins and he wasn't when he says he wept what I mean of what I think he meant.

Vonster

Right math.

Justin Ahrens

Um, well you know I do turn 50 this weekend. So ah, I'm yes yes yeah

Jamie Saunders

Oh my god.

klarson

Um, yeah.

Bill Gardner

You you may have heard wept but he said wet I wet a little bit there I would know. Okay, no, do you really turn fifty this week is this really your birthday weekend.

Karen Larson 

Um, yes, so let's not let's not make it about Justin right now. Um.

Jamie Saunders

Oh my gosh.

Justin Ahrens

I Do but let's not talk about as but let's not talk about that. Let's talk about you bill. Let's talk about you? Yeah yeah.

Jamie Saunders

Um, we already celebrated that it how it's over it happened already. We already celebrated that we blew out candles. You got your cake. Yeah, it's not about you justin we're back to Bill Karen and and Justin have already been celebrated.

Bill Gardner

Ah, okay.

klarson

Um, right like right? So so be happy. Yeah, so how do you clients find you? yeah and or you find them is.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, um, so if I've got a regret. It's that I have never spent more time out hustling clients looking for them because I have always we've we've been very fortunate that. There has been a good line of people that had courage coming to us saying Wow Would you do this for us and you know you can sometimes be fully stationed just by working with what comes through the front door and to some degree we do that You know that's Ah, a big chunk of it. 

Karen Larson

Now is that based on referrals is that based on. Um you know the knowledge. How do they know? how do they know you? How would how do how? how do they find you in the midst of everything else and I really don't know what the how much of it is.

Bill Gardner

Um, yeah, yeah, so um, we'll do a dive here then for those that don't know I'm in which do handsnsas which is dead in the middle of the us let let me let me rephrase that which is alive in the middle of the Us.

Karen Larson 

You know what's going on in Wichita and how much of it is national or international.

Bill Gardner

Um, and Wichita is a community of about None but the state of Kansas you drive a long ways between towns. They're not all right next to each other and when you start looking at the number of entrepreneurs.

Jamie Saunders

Um.

Bill Gardner

And really amazing companies started here. Wichita is an aviation center um Cessna and lear and boeing and beach all started here at Wichita um, and.

Bill Gardner

Continue to fabricate and build here and it is just a highly industrial community and a lot of business going on. So it's been a great place for me because it's small enough to know yourself. But it's also small enough for others to know yourself and.

Bill Gardner

Um, there's there's kind of an ethic in Kansas that you don't you don't brag about what you do, um, you know you're you're relatively humble. So I don't belong here. Um, no okay, they've they've hung on me anyway. But.

Justin Ahrens

Effective.

Bill Gardner

Ah, you know, um, when um, when a fortune 500 company from this area needs us they they' come to us but the cool thing is that through logo lounge and I I know we're going to get the logo lounge eventually that. There's a level of notoriety that came with starting that up twenty years ago and the writings and everything else that we've published that have really expanded as way outside of this market. Plus I started the Aig chapter here with some folks back? um in 87.

Karen Larson

Ah.

Bill Gardner

And we were there were only 16 Aig chapters in the in in the world at that point and came to know and spent a lot of time with a lot of name brand designers at the time that were way out of my league but that allowed me to become good friends with them.

Karen Larson

Right.

Bill Gardner

And they helped me along ah in the effort. So man it's it's all about connections guys people that you're connected to are the ones that hire you.

Karen Larson

Yeah I yeah, it's really actually pretty fascinating what what goes on in Kansas um, with all of the different industry and creatives and it's like it's the.

Jamie Saunders

Um, and we say that all the time.

Bill Gardner

Yeah. Um, you know what? you know it? Karen yeah.

Karen Larson

Weird little hub in the middle of nowhere I feel like yeah yep.

Justin Ahrens

Well bill I I want to really dig in here and um, ah I want you to think of you know, like the biggest you know shit show Client project Horror story.

Bill Gardner

Um.

Justin Ahrens

You know, let's let's let's really dig into the worst experience well because you know I don't think we talk about these things enough and and I think I would love to hear you know what happened for you? yeah.

Bill Gardner

Um, I've never had 1 of those ever. No I've never had 1 who what can? Yeah yeah.

Karen Larson

That's what we need.

Jamie Saunders

Stop it.

Karen Larson

You don't have to name names.

Jamie Saunders

Yeah, there's no names just stories.

Bill Gardner

You know this this this this is a kind of thing that I I had I had this conversation with somebody recently that I think thinking of those stories is kind of like um you know God God's ability to make. Ah women so that they can forget what childbirth felt like so that they would continue to Procreate. You know it's kind of like I I'm relatively sure that we all kind of as designers just kind of want to wipe those memories from our mind because the f and we're getting is worth the f and we're getting.

Vonster

Fast.

Jamie Saunders

Um, oh my god.

Bill Gardner

So you know ah you you just want to kind of put that out of your memory and.

Justin Ahrens

Are you giving me hold on Bill Bill Gardner are you giving me a non answer right now I'm I'm not going to accept that what are you running for for an office in Kansas.

Jamie Saunders

Um, what is happening in Kansas like.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, no, okay um I I may have I may have shared this story with somebody before but here's this This is one of my very very very favorite instances and I'm actually gonna name a name here. Um.

Jamie Saunders

And his dad was the mayor I mean you heard he learned from the best.

Jamie Saunders

Well spill the tea.

Bill Gardner

So there was a yeah, we'll we'll get the liability suits going there. There was a a veterinarian whose name was Dr Bogue in this area and he had clinics all over and this has probably been I don't yeah yeah and he's no, he's still around and ah.

Justin Ahrens

Rest in peace Dr. Bogue oh sorry

Jamie Saunders

Oh.

Bill Gardner

Probably and I don't know about 15 about fifteen years ago um we had just started publishing all of the yeah well we had started publishing all the local lounge books and you know getting great notoriety out of that and I get this call from Dr Bogue and he goes Bill Gardner yeah

Jamie Saunders

When you do.

Bill Gardner

And the way the way that this call leads in you're going? Yeah yeah, and he goes this is Dr Bogle oh well how are you? Dr well great is this I he says I picked up None of your books. Ah, well that's so kind of you and he's going ne says me. Logos in there I was mostly looking kind of the stuff by buying glitchka but there was some amazing but no okay, you didn't really say that but but he's going you. You're you are an amazing designer I well well thank you for anyway, she says I am getting ready to open a new clinic and I would like to reidentify um I'd I'd like a new logo.

Vonster

Yes.

Bill Gardner

And said what God you know? Thank you so much for calling. He says I've already drawn the logo I just need somebody that can put it into the computer.

Jamie Saunders

Oh.

Justin Ahrens

Perfect.

Karen Larson

Oh my god.

Bill Gardner

You know it? Yes, it's one ah and everybody here has had that experience where somebody has come to them you know? except yeah I got I got it or Nick care of and doctors are notorious for this doctors believe they can do everything so they always you know on it. Sorry.

Vonster

Ah, ah, ideal client.

Jamie Saunders

I Already know what I want.

Vonster

Oh yeah.

Karen Larson

Um, ah oh yes.

Jamie Saunders

I Don't even need you? yep.

Bill Gardner

Already drew the thing up. Well anyway, he says yes as I've already drawn it up and I says it looks great I'm good I'm sure it does he goes? ah but I just need somebody that can draw it electronically and and digitally and I swear what I stopped and said was Dr Bogue says

Jamie Saunders

Ah, let's see it.

Bill Gardner

Maybe maybe we can do a trade because this weekend I'm going to do some surgery on my dog but I need somebody that can close him up when I'm done.

Justin Ahrens

You didn't say that. Yeah.

Bill Gardner

I did and because I knew this was going nowhere and I was going you know I've always wanted to just these some of a bitch you set me up you know, but he just he kind of he did this. Ah I said no seriously.

Karen Larson

I Love it.

Jamie Saunders

I bet he did.

Vonster

Yeah, ask I lost them. But.

Jamie Saunders

You wait see you're not going to do it. Yeah.

Bill Gardner

He said dude I said I'm he says if you I said if you've drawn a logo just work with your logo. You'll you'll you'll be perfectly fine. You don't need me to come in and you know, kind of help you close that logo up. Do you and he goes I get it I get it.

Jamie Saunders

Scan it in.

Karen Larson

Ah, like.

Jamie Saunders

Oh he got it.

Justin Ahrens

Okay, well let me let me ask you? Ah, let me ask you this question because we just had this happen to us and I'll tell you at the end if you're interested how it how it worked out so have you? Yes I've already forwarded your name. Um.

Bill Gardner

And that was the end of the call. Yeah Boom Yeah are you gonna pass him on to me.

Karen Larson

Wow.

Jamie Saunders

Ah, you were the one person he thought of.

Justin Ahrens

Ah, we recently did ah ah ah, a couple logos. We thought there were wonderful sums of the client like it was one of those slam dunks where I actually couldn't figure out which of the 3 I liked better like and I was I was like oh worst case I'll have a hard time picking so what I get instead is.

Bill Gardner

And and Yeah, yeah.

Justin Ahrens

These are great Blah blah blah and then the wonderful but scroll down to the bottom of my email I sketched on a paper towel. Ah how like sort of an amalgam of the ideas. Um, and.

Bill Gardner

Boom.

Jamie Saunders

How it could be better. Yes.

Bill Gardner

Yep, um.

Justin Ahrens

Ah, this is never really happened was actually happened maybe twice in 20 Well here's the thing it's happened twice in 22 years and this one I looked at and I was like huh that's actually pretty good and ah.

Bill Gardner

Was it a good suggestion. Okay.

Justin Ahrens

We I'll tell you the ending you can share if you've had this happen to you and then we we took it and and you know, kind of re um, redrew it and and you know put our magic on it and me in the creative director and designer looking at and I'm just like this is the best logo of the 4 of them and they picked it and they loved it. Um, so.

Bill Gardner

No. Yeah, yeah.

Justin Ahrens

They they don't always turn out bad I know if it was would have started that way I never would have took the job but have you had that happen where a clients come to you with with a sketch or a tweak and and I don't mean like we we collaborate all the time. But I mean I'm talking about a totally redraw.

Bill Gardner

Um, no, they don't Um, yeah I think hell yeah. Yeah, not so much a redraw on it. But I mean it guys. You got to listen to the client I mean they're the ones that are paying you and you know you're not designing for yourself. You're designing for them Now. You can you can try and tell that aesthetic story and.

Karen Larson

Yep.

Jamie Saunders

Um, ah Karen always says that.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, you know it's you're trying to guide them. But man if you listen to him sometimes and I know it hurts our egos to believe this but sometimes they've got great input and you know more often than not and you know I've yeah.

Justin Ahrens

Yeah I would say I would agree I would take this so I would take this sometimes out and say you know most often you know one of the things I did earlier in the career if I was offended or whatever or annoyed by client feedback. Um finally I stopped and say why am I so annoyed about it.

Bill Gardner

I get it.

Jamie Saunders

Um.

Bill Gardner

Yeah.

Justin Ahrens

Right? And it ended up being because I wanted them to do what I wanted them to do right? But so I wasn't listening and then as that shifted you know that's why like when I got that napkin I was laughing because I'm like damn this is really good right? And ah, we're going to crush it and we did and they loved it and it's wonderful. We're and removing but um.

Bill Gardner

And yeah.

Jamie Saunders

Um, and.

Bill Gardner

Um, yeah. But I'll also bet you that when you looked at that napkin that you ended up bringing your own magic to it and creating What was really exceptional now they may they may have delivered a concept or an idea but you know you didn't just scan in what they gave you and say here it is.

Justin Ahrens

You know I think that.

Jamie Saunders

I will.

Justin Ahrens

Oh no for sure. Yeah, it looks It looks much. It looks much you know more refined and different and all this stuff. My point is like I really appreciated that feedback. You know I can't say most of our clients will be able to provide a sketch and it would turn out that way right? because we've had someone that they draw us the tick figure and say hey I want.

Bill Gardner

I Mean you brought your own aesthetic code. F. Um, felt like a bond piece. Yeah. Yet. Yeah, and.

Justin Ahrens

Basically this with some cool type right? um.

Jamie Saunders

Um, oh.

Karen Larson

But but don't you think clients are a lot savvier now than they used to be as far as.

Bill Gardner

Um, um, yeah, go on.

Jamie Saunders

I Would love to hear von's take on that.

Justin Ahrens

That's a tricky quick. That's a tricky question Von and Bill you can take that one.

Vonster

I I wouldn't say by default. No I It just it's hit or miss. It's like I've had clients who I didn't think would have any possibility going off the rails who.

Bill Gardner

Okay.

Vonster

Have enough experience to keep something on track and it's still blew up where I've worked with people who are small business owners have no clue about marketing or branding and the process has gone really smooth and they actually had some really good ideas this one.

Bill Gardner

Who.

Vonster

Ah, this one guy I've been work with 15 years he's not a creative. He's not a designer he does coding for artificial intelligence. He's smart but he comes up with the best brand names for stuff and yeah, yeah, right.

Bill Gardner

He's just artificially smart and he's just artificially intelligent and.

Karen Larson

Right? ah.

Vonster

His ideas for um, he's a Maverick entrepreneur so he starts all these businesses and he's successful with them. But he's just really good. Anybody can be creative. So I think it can come from anywhere.

Bill Gardner

Um, I think we've gotten to that point where and again through a lot of through social media that everybody has become some level of an expert and that everybody believes that their opinion is a value in every arena. And everybody's opinion is of value. Yes, everybody's opinion in every Arena is not necessarily of value I used to you know we we do a lot of nomenclature too here.

Bill Gardner

And my opening line did some to a client when we're starting to make that presentation to them after we've done over discovery and often aing likes is that you know when I present a logo to somebody I don't immediately have somebody go with a pencil. Did you think about drawing this and they draw me a picture. But inherently when we present names clients will oftentimes start writing down names before you know during a presentation before you've even shown them what you've come up with. They go did you think about someone's so because we all deal with words and it's important that they be involved in this process because it's from those words much like you were just saying Justin that you know somebody comes up with an idea that you're kind of on but that's genius. You know, but from a logo perspective which was a question you asked.

Karen Larson

Right.

Bill Gardner

Or from a design perspective I think that more and more clients are getting savvy. But I think that there are more and more clients that just believe that they are savvy that um are out there. Um, so.

Karen Larson

Okay, that's good. 

Vonster

That's a good big part.

Jamie Saunders

Well and I think like part of what you're touching on is really interesting because you know having sat on the corporate side of it and someone's bringing you know something to us those were those were my favorite parts of my day that's Karen and I always say we want you know. Creative infusion to be the most fun part of your day that we we don't want you to dread our meetings we want you to look forward to the meetings that we have and so I I sometimes take that stuff as a compliment when we present something and and the and the client gets jazzed and has a ton of ideas because you've. Sparked something in them. They might have been dead inside since their ten o'clock coffee you know that they're sitting there running reports and being told what to do and where to go and you know and that if you can be that person that sparks ideas in a corporate client or a client in general. That's I mean that's part of the fun to me.

Bill Gardner

Will say nothing. Always always remember. It's a dialogue not a monologue and I have to remind myself of that. Sometimes yep.

Jamie Saunders

You agree? Um, yeah, yeah, and you can't get married to things you know because you just don't know where it's going to go. So yeah I love that? Well so.


Vonster

Yep.

Karen Larson

Yep yep. Right? 

Bill Gardner

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Saunders

I would be remiss if we spent all this great time with you and we didn't discuss logo lounge and and you know you've hinted at it and got us excited about it. 

Bill Gardner

Um, sure yeah, no, um so this is our twentieth year of doing the trend.

Jamie Saunders

Um, that's amazing. So.

Karen Larson

It's amazing.

Justin Ahrens

Congratulations.

Bill Gardner

Thank you and it's and it's not like you guys haven't been a big part of it because actually in fact, um I know Von's been in there several times I think that Justin you've been in there a time or two Karen you certainly had input over the use. This is one of those things where the trend report kind of came out of um. Gordon K one of my and Jamie I had this conversation a little while ago because she helped us a little bit this year on the report getting it out and getting the word out but Gordon with graphic and Usa he's a good guy. He really is we we always have the most cordial conversations and he's got the best voice.

Jamie Saunders

Oh I Love gordon.

Justin Ahrens

I Love gordon

Bill Gardner

Ah, but we had ah this conversation and he says you know I kind of just like feed or write whatever you feel comfortable with writing and um I said well that's all good. So. It just so happened. This was the very beginning of logo lounge and I was kind of going I'm kind of seeing some trends here with these logos and I thought this was going to be a None ne-time deal. So I picked out None different trends that I thought were happening and. Called around as a members like I think Bon may have even been helping at that time and I maybe called up felix sockwell and a few others and they all had ideas and kind of we pulled these things together and the next year von or the next year Gordon calls up and said Bill. You think we can do that report again.

Jamie Saunders

Um, you like this.

Bill Gardner

I was going God He is really suffering for something to put in that magazine and ah.

Jamie Saunders

Ah, no, they just know they're so loyal to I mean v to usa they run a great ship him and Ron over there. They're just a amazing and they and they recognize good material that resonates with their audience. So don't ever do that again to yourself. It's good.

Karen Larson

That's awesome.

Bill Gardner

Ah, yeah, they they do. They do.Yep, here's here's here's where here's what it ultimately where where this whole thing got on track was that people didn't understand I have always looked at Trends as being a trajectory as being a transition as being evolution.

And that's my best way of talking about it and it's not trendy because Trendy is something that is ephemeral and it's going to happen very quickly. It's going to. It's a fad and it's going to go away and there are so many people that just don't look at the damn title. It says it's a trend report reporting on Trends not on trendies and.

Karen Larson

Right.

Bill Gardner

They go? Well thank god I didn't make it in there because I'd hate to be thought of as being trendy and over the years now it has gained that level of credibility because people look back and they go oh crap. Yeah, he he said this and now all of a sudden There's all these mono line logos where now all of us. God I can remember the year we started talking about transparent logos and I could only find 3 transparent logos one of which was the Msnbc butterfly. You know it was like there. There was or the Msn butterfly there. There was no, you know other logo that was out there that would help us put that trend. Into the report but over the years we found that man these things either None they really were accurate or 2 everybody looked at it and said I guess that's what people are doing so they started doing it. You know, selfful fulfilled prophecy but twenty years later you know that's 15 per report that's None trends for per that's you know I don't know None different logos treat that I a lot of it. Yeah I love you know yeah.

Jamie Saunders

Design math.

Karen Larson

Wow.

Vonster

I remember back in 2007 bill you you said me that we live in an rgb world now and that was right around that same time with ah the the butterfly logo for yeah.

53:04.43

Bill Gardner

The Msn yep yep, and and it's true.

Jamie Saunders

Um, yeah I mean I I Just think like you're you're I bet those people are kicking themselves now is what I'd like to say the ones that are like oh thank God I wasn't featured. They're like damn it I wasn't good enough to be featured in that you know.

Bill Gardner

Um, you know here's here's one um, here's one of my favorite von was just talking on remembering the Msn logo and the transparencies and moving to ah rgb world from the cm y k world. But here's what happens and and we see this on a daily basis I know you guys do but we don't recognize it and that's that you guys remember Enron ah the oil the oil and energy future company that everybody was investing in that they were doing some funny shit and all of a sudden.

Justin Ahrens

Power Paul Rand Logo Paul Rand logo

Bill Gardner

Everything went to hell on him. Okay Paul Rand Logo for Enron dammit. But when you think about what was going on at the time all of the financial services at that point started listening to a word that was being used across that industry which was transparent.

Karen Larson

This is.

Bill Gardner

We need to be transparent if we're going to invest with people's funds. They need to know what's happening to them. We need to be transparent and it was at exactly that time that illustrator introduced the ability to move 1 item over another and see transparencies.

Karen Larson

Perfect.

Bill Gardner

In real time now up until that time it had been in photos shop and you if you wanted to see what something looked like on top of another thing you would move it over there and then you would go to lunch and you'd come back and see if it was done calculating you know and you go hey I'm I've still got time for a copy I'm gonna you know and that.

Karen Larson

That's awesome. It's so true.

Bill Gardner

But because it's happened in real time designers were infatuated with transparency collision financial industry saying we need to show transparrencies designers going I've got a tool that shows transparency and all of a sudden there was this explosion of logos.

Justin Ahrens

It may.

Bill Gardner

Were transparent and almost all of them originally were for the financial industry because that was their way of being able to put it out in front of people Merrill Lynch cafeteria program. All transparent images. You know you can take this and this and this and they but add them together but you can see where your money went and.

Karen Larson

Right.

Bill Gardner

This is what we pick up in the in in the trend report is not only identifying them but explaining why that trend is going on so twenty years later yeah this report that just came out. You can look at it for free on logolounge dot com um or just look up logo trend report you're going to find it that way. Ah, or you can go on to logo lounge and you can actually pay $100 and become a member of logo lounge and then you can upload as many of your logos as you want and potentially end up inside of one of the logo lounge books which.


Karen Larson

Oops.

Bill Gardner

Have turned into the largest selling series of identity design books ever. So anyway, yeah yeah, it yeah got it all in there. Yeah, go ahead.

Jamie Saunders

Oh incredible congratulations.

Karen Larson 

So did logo lounge start first or which one was first logo lounge or the trend report because I remember you know logo lounge was the books were something. You'd get every single year and you'd have them on your desk and you know and now now I just go and do $100 and

Bill Gardner

Logo Lounge. Um, yeah, yeah, yep, and people still do Yeah yeah.

Karen Larson

You know because anytime it's the most just like I talk about how design being something that has was a game changer for the industry I feel the same about logo lounge If you're a logo designer then you need to be part of.

Bill Gardner

Um, thank you.

Karen Larson

Or use logo lounge as a source of inspiration as a source. It's just.

Bill Gardner

You know I've got to throw some credit on 2 of you right now. Um, you've got to know that Vaughn was one of the very early adopters and bon came to me because I was talking to Felix Sockwell and said.

Bill Gardner

Who's out there that I'm missing who do I need to get involved in Loga lounge and Felix said there's this guy who's drawing baseball cards and football cards and his name is von glitchka and I said can you spell it and he said no.

Vonster

Black.


Jamie Saunders

Ah, at least they could say it.

Justin Ahrens

But the way you're not even saying it right? It's von it's von glichka.

Bill Gardner

And when when rule twenty nine and Justin got on board again early on early adopters in here you know and early into the books and it was a situation where I can remember Robin Ray from Modern dog coming to me and going bill. We actually had a client walk into our office with your logo lounge book going hey I saw your logo in here. Can you design something for me and I had more people I've had a designer bond when we were down at Creative South One of the designers came up to me and.

Jamie Saunders

I love Robin. Yes.

Bill Gardner

His logo had been on the cover of the logo lounge book on his None date with his soon to be wife. He walked her into a barnes and noble and said ah look there's one of my logos on the cover of that book I got marriages that came out of this thing.

Jamie Saunders

But.

Vonster

Um, nice.

Jamie Saunders

Um, ah ah.

Justin Ahrens

It's a solid move Solid move.

Karen Larson

That is if you if you're going to love me, you have to love logo lounge. Ah.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, so logo lounge started up because man it was I have every very logo book in the world seems like and our designers love going through and that's cool, but you could be post at noteum forever trying to find. All the examples of a Fox or all the examples of fish or a theater or whatever or or something that's you know serendipity. But I can go to logo Loudon. Yeah, yeah, and it's perfect for that and.

Karen Larson

Nope, That's what I love about being able to search on the website I Love that? Yeah, it is.

Jamie Saunders

Um, for a turtle.

Bill Gardner

So when it when it started out. The thing was is people didn't get the idea of paying money to be able to search for logos or paying money to they got the idea of a book and they got the idea of a competition and I can remember um I had just juried.

Bill Gardner

Ah, the ca design annual and Patrick Ko and I were sitting down to dinner afterwards and and I threw this idea at him about doing this and he goes you're crazy. No nobody is going to pay you money to stick their logos on the internet to you know to look at them there. Why would they do that when they've got a magazine like ca you know.

Bill Gardner

and and I said Patrick because when you look at CA you're looking at history when you look at logo lounge you can look at a logo that was uploaded today.

Vonster

So.

Bill Gardner

You can see something that a designer designed for a baker in Australia before the baker sells first look for bread and yeah, so there you go. That's how it out started.

Karen Larson

Yeah, well you can see the trend that before you call it now.

Jamie Saunders

She gets it.

Justin Ahrens

I mean I've been I've been searching logo on this whole show. Just you know, checking things out.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, yeah.


Karen Larson

Ah, yep.

Jamie Saunders

Not paying attention so and now. Ah.

Bill Gardner

You know what? it's easy. It's easy. It's easy to get um there. There's three hundred and eighty thousand some logos on there which one are you on right now.

Justin Ahrens

I Really thought that would land a lot better than it did but hey you know we can always cut it or keep it in. Ah.

Jamie Saunders

It sounded a little ADD but.

Justin Ahrens

I Just put in bananas.

Bill Gardner

And how many I've never seen how how many banana logos came up. There's a little counter that tells you.

Justin Ahrens

How many how many results came up for um, well the problem with the problem with my search is I spelled banana wrong, but no, um, there is a there is a None banana logos.

Karen Larson

How many bananas.

Jamie Saunders

And what are the results.

Vonster

But.

Bill Gardner

Shit. Go figure. How else are you going to find a None banana good banana logas.

Jamie Saunders

Wow.

Karen Larson

Um, I'm so right? So do you actually do you weed out on the local lounge or is if it's been posted it stays there. That's wonderful I assumed that but.

Justin Ahrens

Um, brothers.

Bill Gardner

Um, no, yes, yeah yeah, well there have been a few Nudy pictures that people have uploaded that I ended up pulling down. But yeah, you know everything that gets uploaded has somebody's name attached to it so you got to be able to. Yeah.

Karen Larson

Bright. Yeah.

Bill Gardner

Have the cohonas to stand behind anything that you put up there. So um, you know we didn't have to make that fear that no but something that a lot of people don't realize is there. There is the ability to um to sort based off the quality level of the logo in there.

Karen Larson

Um, right.

Bill Gardner

Yeah, so you will see these little targets. There's a large and then a less large than even smaller and then a tiny target and if you hit the tiny target. It's just going to pull up all the logos in whatever you're searching that have been in books if you hit the next size up.

Karen Larson

This is.

Bill Gardner

It's all the logos that judges that judge the Jury The book gave any point value to and if you go to the next one up, it's everything that everything that somebody. Yeah.

Karen Larson

Now.

Justin Ahrens

Well I'm doing this right now. This is awesome I can't believe I didn't know this.

Karen Larson

I didn't know that either now is that only part of the paid offering. Okay, that's what I thought.

Bill Gardner

Oh yeah, yeah I mean it guys you got it. You got to pay for the site because we've got to pay for the site there there. Yeah there you know there there is so much goes on.

Karen Larson

Absolutely absolutely.

Jamie Saunders

Don't cheap out Don don't cheap out.

Vonster

I need to upload our creative shit show logo because I just I just searched for shit and there's only 16 logos and I think we can make it in the book. But.

Jamie Saunders

So that's so

We could win Oh my God The shit show could win.

Bill Gardner

Ah, you invited him on because both Vaughn and Justin have been here have been book jurors and know what pain it is to go through the None of logos that are submitted but you know that did you really tell me about that.

Karen Larson

Ah.

Justin Ahrens

I Actually loved it. No I Really did I loved it it. In fact, it was it I found it really and inspiring. But what's interesting too. Um is I just looked up our firm and all the logos we've entered and looking at the ones that judges looked at.

Vonster

Yeah, those are always fun I like to in the.

Justin Ahrens

And that's nice to know like what they with some judges picked. It's very cool I'm very grateful you created the collection.


Bill Gardner

Yep. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Saunders

You should tell your client to upload their paper towel there just saying.

Bill Gardner

It works. You know one of the things that people don't realize is how the judging goes down and I don't know how good vaughn or Jessin's memory is in here. But like this last book. There were 35000 logos that had been submitted since the previous book I think imagine any competition any competition that has 35000 injuries there. There are none you know I mean that's yeah I mean and it's it's just one of those things where there's a immense amount in there.

Karen Larson

Wow.

Bill Gardner

So we've expanded the judging field to 10 judges. Um, they are always named brand designers from around the world. We end up taking it so every logo is seen by 3 of the judges exactly 3 of the judges and they can rank them. They come up on this. Page and they're already marked as 0 and they can put a None a 2 or a 3 for them. So the highest score any logo could possibly get during a judging would be a None and typically out of None logos. There would be None or maybe 2 logos that make it to a None

Jamie Saunders

Wow.

Bill Gardner

Because all the judges have to be in agreement that that is just the most exquisite mark in there and then we start working our way down to the eights and the sevens and the six s and the fives and the fours and the threes and the cool thing is that if a judge marks you and says you know I like that logo.

Karen Larson

None

Bill Gardner

It may have been passed over by some of the other judges. There's always so many great marks that don't make it into the book and I feel really badly about that. But I also don't pick the marks that go into the books that judges do and they always do an incredible job. We always have such great content in the books.

Jamie Saunders

Um, well Bill I we have so like we could go on forever I mean this could be like the the how dinner we had you know where we could be together for all night and it's still not good enough of you but you know at some point in time we got to set your magic free. So.

Karen Larson

For what.

Bill Gardner

Um, yep, yep. I get it.

Jamie Saunders

We've we've just loved our time with you if you guys want to know more I think there was an excellent interview just done with Stephen Heller so go check that out. Um, and it was incredible. I am really proud of you bill and and we're happy that you decided to join us is this. You're fun like there's only.

Bill Gardner

Um, oh yeah.

Karen Larson

Congratulations there.

Bill Gardner

Um, that was fun.

Jamie Saunders

You know good things to be said about you. So thanks for coming on the shit show. You're excellent. Can't wait to share this with our audience.

Bill Gardner

Had a blast unit guys sweet.

Karen Larson

Yep, we love you.

Justin Ahrens

Thanks Bill.

Jamie Saunders

Um, thanks Bill. But.

Vonster

You're a Legend bill.

Bill Gardner

Um, listen listen listen with a thunderous crowd applauding.

Justin Ahrens

Don't don't worry but we'll we'll put some voice over of like one of people clapping and it being credible.

Bill Gardner

Oh can you ah just put some pop rock put some pop rocks in your mouth and get really close to microphone.

Jamie Saunders

See you later, Bill! BYE!


Karen Larson
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