Ep 04: Unblocking Creative
Co-Hosts Justin Ahrens, Karen Larson, Von Glitschka, and Jamie Saunders share ways to break through creative blocks and get your creative juices flowing. Some might surprise you, but all should get you thinking and moving forward. Grab a drink, and have a listen.
SHOW NOTES (IN ORDER):
“The Artist’s Way” by Julia Cameron
Karen Larson Art - INSTAGRAM - @karen.larson.art
Von’s koi pond
Keep on Trucking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_On_Truckin%27_(comics)
Keep on Trucking’ Artist, Robert Crumb Documentary: https://www.criterion.com/films/2104-crumb
Jamie’s Favorite Harry Potter Book: https://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Order-Phoenix-Book/dp/043935806X
Audible Link https://www.audible.com
HOW Magzine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOW_(magazine)
PRINT Magazine www.printmag.com
Dribble https://dribbble.com
Pinterest www.pinterest.com
Art Director’s Annual https://www.oneclub.org/adc/100th/
“Reading is equivalent to thinking with someone else's head instead of with one's own.” – Arthur Schopenhauer
Von’s Interpretation: “You get to experience what life is from their perspective. It’s theoretical knowledge of course but still a good way to learn new things.”
“The Pioneers” by David McCullough - www.amazon.com
Robert Mirek Fine Artist (and Karen’s husband) - robertmirek.com
Justin’s trip to Yosemite:
ROUGH TRANSLATION
Justin: Okay, well, I think what we can do is we can go ahead and start the show and then slowly watch Von put together this microphone and make fun of him on occasion.
Jamie: I'm down with that.
Justin: You all. It's been great these first few episodes, and I'm excited to continue to explore different ideas but 1 of the things I wanted to throw out there today that I think would be really interesting. Um, and this is one of the things that I was talking to some of my younger designers and some students about, and that is, you know, in the different work you do.
Do you guys still get creative block like when you're working on something, and you just are not sure like what to do, or you kind of go into this routine because I have a routine um that I go into to kind of unlock when I'm stuck I know. Karen, do you have that problem? I mean, you are the, what's the correct term? Our elder stateswoman of the 4 of us.
Jamie: Wow, that was bold! That was bold.
Justin: So I'm sorry if you can see her face right now. She is telling me that I'm number one, and this is what I appreciate about her, and um, well, I mean that with respect, I'm just saying that you know you've probably been able to conquer this problem.
Vonster: Ah.
Jamie: You went for it.
Karen: Ah.
Karen: I find that the more I work, the less of the block I have. First of all, the creative juices are going crazy when I'm really busy, but um, just getting out. And getting some fresh air and going for a walk really helps that block. Years ago, I listened to or read the book the artists' way.
Justin: Um, awesome.
Karen: She gave you all sorts of different ideas in it. Julia Cameron gave you all sorts of different ideas in it about giving yourself an artist date doing creative morning pages. And people have been doing this for years and I find that if I even I start just going and making art or making marks on a sheet of paper that block kind of dissipates. So that's what I do.
Justin: Well let me ask 1 thing. One of the things I really really really admire about you is your fine art side. I just that's I find that so inspiring. Do you feel that there's an advantage that you you are in that space a lot as well outside of you know your work?
Karen: Thank you.
Vonster: It's great.
Justin: Design Strategy brain.
Karen: Oh there's no question I think that you know the best part about doing the fine art whether it's good or bad. First of all, it doesn't matter. You're just making art and you're not making it for anybody.
Justin: Um, yeah.
Karen: You're not making it for a client. You're just making it for yourself in the moment and I think that it gives your mind a chance to quiet and it's my form of meditation. You know people meditate. I can't just sit there and meditate quietly. But if I'm in flow working on a piece of art or even drawing on my iPad it is is a sense of flow for me and it relaxes me and then I can move on to other tasks. So absolutely.
Justin: I love that. Von, what about you, you're kind of in that space. You know, scribbler drawer extraordinaire.
Vonster: But yeah, um, one of the things Karen said. I mean since last August since I've been doing a lot of walking. Um I found that you know it frees my mind to just free-range thinking. Which I don't get a chance to do I used to do that when I commuted to work years ago but I kind of forgot how much I miss that because I can not just think through work stuff but just life in general think about stuff. So um.
That tends to help kind of pull my mind out of you know the rut I'm stuck in. To focus on something else that doesn't even have to be related to to work. Um, it's as simple I work out of my home studios. So. At times I'll just walk into our backyard. We have a pond back there. Right now we have a cherry blossom tree that's just dumping a ton of petals in the pond. So I go back there. Sure.
Justin: Hold on. Yeah I have a very important question. Do you have a fish in your pond?Yeah, oh Wow we're gonna have to talk about that. Did you design your pond?
Vonster: Do I have fish? I have a lot of coy fish. Yeah, yep, kind of, but it's like I didn't know what I was doing at the time I'd do it differently now. Yeah.
Justin: Okay, and I've always wondered this, do you have names for your koi fish?
Vonster: Yes, Savannah named them, not m,e but you know yeah. Camo, Darth there's ah ah, regals another one I forget what there's 1 more the one the big like we have some that are like. I don't know four feet long by about that fat like really big ones they're they're pretty cool. Um, so I'll focus on anything that's not creatively like anything job-related I try to focus on something different.
Karen: Wow.
Justin: You do not! That's, you could like ride that thing like a sea dragon.
Vonster: I might do a coffee run but sometimes the easiest way is just to and this is kind of a reason why I have side projects that I do for no other reason than just something I want to do I've noticed I noticed trends at times and the trend I've noticed for the past year or so. And I don't even know if there's a proper term for it, but they're the kind of designs I don't know if you remember back in the 70 s the keep on trucking type of artwork. You know there's a lot of motifs that people different artists are doing where it's like a character and he's like walking or
holding a flag or whatever and they have some saying with it I don't even know if there's a name for the trend that um I decided to start I wanted to create one of those myself, so I'm working on that on the side.
So if I get stuck on something like in a client project where. Just feel like I'm hitting a dead end and I just can't figure it out or I'm burned out then I'll refocus on something that I want to do just because I want to do it and then usually if I come back later. Um. That'll give me fresh eyes to see it in a different way and hopefully help me break out of that.
Justin: I Love that hey just throwing this out there for the group and really for Von. How would you feel about doing a keep on trucking Koifish Icon for our show? You know, just throwing that out there.
Vonster: That'd be hard to draw legs for a fish.
Jamie: Oh my God, I can picture it. I can picture it.
Justin: Okay, I mean if if if you I mean if you if you just want to go ahead and limit yourself that's fine phone. Um.
Jamie: You can add it to your portfolio.
Vonster: This is where a client would ask for a ridiculous request and I would just kind of smile and say sure we can think about that. But.
Justin: I mean this could be the thing.
Jamie: That's what I'm saying last but I think in if in a former episode. You mentioned you didn't have a turtle on cue and now you can have a koi fish just in case, you don't know it's going to catch on.
Justin: Keep on trucking Koi fish I mean, don't get mad at me when you sell when you send sell millions of copies of that I'm just saying.
Vonster: Um, that's right. That's actually on and on my list of personal projects is to do a Koi fish illustration but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
Justin: So Jamie, what about you? Do you ever get in that space and how do you get yourself out of it.
Jamie: It's amazing. So we're 3 for 3 on walking. So I'll just skim past that and move on to the idea that you know I am a little different because I do a lot more writing you know than designing I don't do any designing Karen freaks out when I even mention it. But um. I do a lot of writing so when I get stuck writing I go read.
Um, and I find that ah it's very soothing to me. It's very relaxing. It's very distracting and I notice this I don't know as I get older. Maybe I'm just more aware of it when I was a kid I probably didn't realize that it was teaching me new vocabulary as I was reading. So I'll come back from you know reading... I mean I'll read anything too. It doesn't have to be. You know it can be teenage romance novels it can be you know Harry Potter whatever it is I don't really care. But um i'll. Add new words to my vocabulary it it strengthens my creativity. It gives me just a way more fun way of looking at things than than I went into it. So yeah, when I get stuck writing, I go read.
Vonster: I agree I agree ah reading is another thing I'll do just to completely focus in a different way. It's like what if reading for me is like watching ah a movie in my head So that's why.
Justin: That's great.
Jamie: Me too.
Vonster: That's why I always love reading because I remember where I paused it and I wonder what's gonna happen next type of thing. So I remember Savannah when she is a little kid in grade school, and she is complaining about having to read and and I kind of use that analogy with her and I go just.
Vonster: Just try it. You know it's It's kind of like watching a movie in your head. You're creative and you'll be able to paint a pretty good picture in your head, and ever since then she's like reading as well.
Karen: Von and I have audible in common and I think Jamie does too. I'm not sure about you Justin, but if I'm working on a project that is like a photoshop retouching project or something that is I Want to say a mindless project I can sit and listen to a book and it turns off all the noise in my head except for what I'm doing on the screen and you know it's kind of like having that movie on.
Justin: Yeah, I definitely have an audio need. So for example I have to have music on when I'm creating and I can even.
Karen: So yeah, it's definitely a relaxing experience.
Justin: Maybe even shift my perspective based on the type of music. So that's one kind of trick that I've really incorporated into into my work, you know, and I think this these are all you know, um, sounds similar and. Probably simple. But I think those are the things that we forget about you know, still for me and this is something that's really interesting, especially with some you aren't creatives is I still need to I still would rather sketch out even if my thumbnails are you know 200 unidentifiable things to someone else, but they're the things that get me like how am I gonna do this a on this logo or how am I going to you know lay this thing out I just do it over and over and over again because I find if I get on the computer.
Yeah, Karen's like got a sketchbook out if I get on the computer I even I try to do it on my iPad too. But there's just something about paper that.
Karen: Love it.
Justin: I don't know it's still magical to me and I've had people over the years where they push back on that and I just don't get that personally I don't know how you can iterate and fly through ideas faster than that and I and I used to i.
Karen: Ah.
Justin: I remember when I had my subscription to HOW and PRINT and COMMUNICATION ARTS I remember I used to go to the annuals and I would look at this great work and you know find a little piece of something there that you know is a seed of an idea and so you know today I I will often look at like Dribble or Pinterest or you know I'll look at um. Ah, some you know Instagram people that I follow, and it really isn't to do anything but unlock an idea you know I don't know if you guys relate this on the visual side especially if you know you can look at a bunch of work and then. You might find something that really attracts you by the time you're done. It's not even in the same galaxy of what you started with but it's whatever that key was to unlock that door.
Jamie: This.
Karen: Absolutely I used to look at um you know since I've been doing this for 100 years plus um I used to we used to have the ART DIRECTOR'S annuals and like you know three-inch thick books filled with all of this unbelievable work and we'd have bookshelves of it and funny thing is I used to work for this studio. It was I worked there when I was still in college. And then five years later, I worked there for 5 years and I still do work with them once in a while just had coffee with the guy. Um last week and if I go into his office. You know I can't say a lot of those old old books are there. But.
Justin: Wow, That's awesome.
Karen: All you know he has all these great old books and he's not that much older than I am so it's you know I miss going through the books. It's fun looking online but it's not the same if you're going through the books you have a sketchbook next to you sort of and.
Justin: Yeah I remember like I yeah I remember putting post it's on there and going through those things and having a million million posts I read an article a couple years ago that really resonated with me now I wish I could remember who wrote it or or where I read it. But.
Karen: Yup.
Vonster: Yep.
Justin: It was really this concept of how are you living your life to fill your mind with things that really activate it right? So, for example, you guys all talk about walking and there's no doubt that movement you know, even before you start doing something. Really beneficial to us to you know, have just a clear mind. But I've also found for me.
Um, you know Jamie of on to your point and even you know on the audible side like if I'm reading on a regular basis I'm traveling. You know it doesn't have to be anywhere extraordinary but you know I'm just getting out inside of my normal.
Karen: Okay.
Justin: And then for me man movies and story. Whatever way I can I can digest those when I'm doing the accommodation of those things it feels like my ideas just flow way easier and I never even get in that space and oftentimes when I've been stuck I look back and say man I haven't. Haven't moved in a while I haven't really read anything, or I haven't gone anywhere I haven't you know what? I mean I don't know does that land with you guys at all as far as you know, kind of what you're doing in the space around you to Help. You know you keep in that zone.
Jamie: Yeah I mean I'm getting into cooking right now Karen knows it's a big passion of vine I mean I was a terrible cook. I didn't grow up in a household where cooking was a priority and we would beg My mom to bake you know. So it started off for me with just learning some old recipes of my mom's and baking and now I'm like I Love cooking. I had no idea it. It makes me feel creative you know and then you feel like you imagine yourself, you know in some restaurant while you're cooking or being like so silly and you're like chopping things and you're like oh yeah, I mean and then you make something and everybody's like this is awesome. I don't know to me that's like the ultimate creating a meal from scratch with my hands is you know, incredibly creative feeling.
Justin: I Love it.
Karen: There's no question. It's a it's a form of artwork that and it's awesome because whenever we travel, Jamie cooks for me and I sit back. Awesome.
Justin: Well, I also love that the the thing about cooking. It's really beautiful. The thing about cooking. It's really beautiful too is then you you get to share it right? And I think that's a part of cooking that I think is really yeah yeah.
Vonster: Hot pockets don't count.
Karen: Yes, it's a part of community building.
Jamie: I do like that.
Vonster: There's ah a great quote that says reading is thinking with someone else's head and I've bought I've I've always liked that so you can you can pick up a topic doesn't matter what genre it is and you can read it.
Jamie: Oh totally. Yep.
Karen: Yeah.
Vonster: And it's like you get to at least theoretically experience the same what they experience if they're a good writer that is but that's what that's why I like it. It's like I've learned more about history by just reading on my own nonfiction historical novels there. There's a great one I read in 2001 or 2021 um, it was about like all the settlers from the original colonies and they started going to ohio territory to start moving west.
Like it was just fascinating I mean there's all these rabbit trails that came out in it like ah these settlers were going out in this unsettled area of Ohio of Western Ohio and in the process of finding a place to put a homestead. They find all of these. Mound ruins and they didn't know what they were so they went to the local tribe who were they had befriended already and they asked the ah the chief you know, did you guys create all these ruins that are out here in the forest we found. He goes no. Those were here before we got here and and then there is a footnote, and I looked down and it had a footnote on on that part of the book and and come to find out. There is a whole culture called the Hopewell culture that preexisted all these native American tribes and. They don't really know where they all went. They just know they existed because all these mounds if you start in Ohio and you just follow the border under the Canadian border all the way over to Washington you'll find mound cultures and ruins.
Karen: Ah.
Vonster: It's just fascinating. It's like I never heard any of that until I read this book about you know the early settlers. It's just fun.
Karen: Well now you're going to have to let us know what it is. We can put it in the show notes. Yeah and I want to listen to it. You know I want to go back to.
Jamie: Karen and I love history.
Vonster: Um, yeah.
Justin: Um, and I love Von teaching us history. Thank you Von.
Karen: Absolutely, you know I want to go back to? Um, you know the fact that looking at books looking at inspiration online for design and things like that and 1 time I said something to Bob, my husband Robert Myrick, he's a fine artist. And I said to him is it weird that we that as a designer I go and look for inspiration online and things like that and or in books and he says no, it's your museum and you know as fine artists we go to museums and we.
Justin: And what a great perspective.
Karen: Um, for inspiration and for looking into the past as to what other people have done and you're doing the same thing by following other artists or designers online and in books and things like that and when he said that I mean it was probably twenty years ago but this conversation triggered that and I think it's just it's a you know something to think about It's not so it's not like we're copying. It's we're looking at inspiration. We're keeping up with trends. We're, you know, looking at colors and um and I think that's why all these different resources online that. Um, that we have to inspire us are really amazing.
Jamie: Well, and for people who aren't designers. You know like me you, you guys were talking about online inspiration in that way, you know for reading isn't just about books for me too. It means I can go out on Linkedin or other places and. Read blogs or read other people's thoughts so Von when you were talking about, you know, living inside someone else's head like I I I do enjoy going out and exploring what other people are talking about too. It's it's ah like you know, not just about looking at things but you know about. I enjoy looking at others I enjoy reading other people's thoughts even in the present day online. You know real-time.
Justin: Yeah, I think that doing that sort of exploration is you know as much of learning what you don't want to do write or read or draw whatever then you do.
Hey, welcome back. Von. Did you take a little vacation there from our podcast?
Vonster: I Just realized something, I had to deal with it.
Justin: Karen, can you keep this In the podcast? Um, because.
Karen: Um.
Vonster: Ah sorry, I muted my mike. You guys didn't have to start cracking up.
Justin: Um, hey listen Von if you're gonna if you're gonna fart. We're adults here. It happens you can just let it go. We'll edit it out.
Jamie: Von, go look at the chat.
Vonster: Ah. That wasn't it, I was, I can't remember where I put my iPhone needs.
Jamie: Super urgent that you find it in the middle of recording your podcast.
Vonster: No because I had something on it I wanted to bring up.
Jamie: Also oh okay now I feel bad.
Justin: Ah.
Karen: Um, what it was.
Karen: Yeah, okay, but.
Justin: Ah, that's the best far use I've heard in a while but um Karen good luck editing this part because I think some of it. You should absolutely keep in but that's just one man's opinion.
Vonster: Wow rather.
Karen: I Know that is going to be too. That'll be interesting. Um.
Vonster: Ah.
Jamie: I couldn't even breathe for a second.
Justin: Ah, well I think we could probably talk about different ways to you know, kind of get out of creative block or you know find that inspiration I think we should talk more on another show about what inspires us but in closing here.
Karen: Ah.
Justin: If you were to give you know someone just one of your key. Ah, you know, kind of creative block go tos that that you know either to prepare you to you know, avoid that or to help you get through that moment. What's the one that really. Is most valuable to you.
Karen: Um, I would say just get up and walk away, get up and walk away and do something else for you know as long as it takes and I know that's hard for people that have jobs and things like that. But you know take a 15 minute breather and um, and just kind of restart your engine whether it's going for a walk or whatever.
Justin: I love that or yeah, as love to 1 of my first creative drers would tell me when I was working on something creative and it was stuck. He goes, you know, go work on touching up that photo used almost like a different part of your brain and.
Karen: It's that mindless thinking that sometimes helps you to move forward.
Justin: Yeah. Um, yeah Von what about you.
Vonster: Um I do I agree with Karen. I mean I know a lot of people have you know timelines and expectations they ought to hit so even if it's like setting something aside for fifteen-thirty minutes and just refocus on something completely different like you said it's it's a great way to kind of reset and then if you reapproach it whether it's a visual problem whether it's more of a conceptual. You know you're trying to come up with an idea. It
helps to kind of I don't know kickstart your thinking again and usually you can figure it out after that point.
Justin: Awesome, Jamie what about you.
Jamie: 2 things, 1 is if you're writing something that requires a lot of energy. It's exhausting but some people will spend a lot of time on the introduction paragraph and won't move on. Ah, to the rest of the writing until they've like tightened that up or neatened up and I think over time I've learned to just stop writing that intro paragraph first. And I'll actually go through and try to write as much of the other copy and while I'm writing the other copy the intro presents itself. And it has saved me countless hours of being stuck trying to find the perfect way and you know for other writers out there. The story changes as you're writing, so you know even as the client's like this is with a direction I want you to go, most of my clients are really good about letting me be a little. Freer and a little less ah stringent. So you know I might change my mind about the direction of the ah story as I'm writing it, so it's just really hard to, you know, start with that first paragraph.
So that's my first one and then the second one is just going do something easier. And know it sounds really stupid to say that. But if you're working on something and it's really taxing on your brain and you've got a whole to do list of other things. There are other easier things on that list I guarantee you to that you can go back and hit and check off and feel productive and by the time you're finished with that. Might be ready to come back and and try again.
Justin: Now I Love that.
Karen: I think that's great advice.
Vonster: Yeah, writing. For somebody, it seems like, to get really good writing. It's more about editing than it is writing and that used to hang me up too until and I don't know if this has to do with anything Dyslexia or whatever in my own head but like I found when I write stuff I always put what should be last before what I have last and I'm always copping and pasting it at the bottom. It's it's it's weird. It's like my mind always does that? Yeah yeah.
Jamie: I do the same thing.
Karen: Well, we need to talk about that at some point in another episode about writing because it's something that um, as designers I know a lot of us are challenged at it. So I know I am so I think that would be an excellent topic.
Justin: Yeah I love that topic I think yeah I think all of your suggestions are are great I I will say that I just got back from ah a trip a hiking trip to Yosemite and I can tell you that just being in nature and.
Karen: To talk about? yeah.
Jamie: What about you Justin I don't think we hit yours.
Vonster: Um, good idea.
Justin: You know going out and just you know travel and being just exposed to things that just really inspire me has just energized me Beyond. You know what I expected you know I haven't traveled as much the last couple years and so you know whatever you can do to to do that. I think that's a great, you know, sort of preemptive creative block therapy that we could use, and I think that you know to build off what you guys have said I I Really ah agree with them doing something different simple. You know, um. Is a really great way to just kind of shift your brain still feel productive if you need to write and and come back to something when you can. So I Love it? Well hey this is a great conversation. Um, so we talked about a lot of things that we can cover in the Future. Um.
Jamie: Hundred percent
Karen: Yep.
Justin: I'm most excited about Von's clay pond drawing that we'll have someday and share in a future episode. So thanks Von for that.
Karen: Um, now will we'll get that posted on the website a picture of it. That's what we're gonna do with von diving into it stupid that writing.
Justin: Oh my gosh Von.
Jamie: Scuba Steve
Vonster: Ah I've fallen into it once cleaning. Oh yeah I can't I can take it once I get all this stupid petals out I'll take a foot up. F.
Justin: You at least got to give us a picture for our show notes of your koi pond or that sea monster of a ko you have.
Jamie: But a little tour.
Justin: Well hey y'all you have a great day and I can't wait for the next episode.
Jamie: Thanks Justin thanks guys.
Karen: Sounds great. Thanks Justin!
Vonster: Bye.